‘Why Chibok schoolgirls’ abduction remains a puzzle’

Chief Moses Efe Odeh (JP) is a Delta State business mogul, security analyst and philanthropist. In this interview with CHIDO OKAFOR at his country home in Otibio-Owhe, Isoko North Local Council, he spoke on several issues. He also has a poser over the suspicious manner that the over 200 Chibok schoolgirls were abducted by Boko Haram insurgents in Borno State. 

THE nation just celebrated yet another democracy day. Beyond this democratic experience being the longest we’ve had as a nation, is there anything worth celebrating?

Yes, we have something to celebrate as a nation. In the first place, we are still in our teething period. And Rome was not built in a day; practice they say, makes perfection. If democracy is allowed to strive in Nigeria, Nigeria will be one of the best countries to reckon with as far as democracy is concerned.

   The only problem with Nigerians and politicians is impatience. They want elected politicians or individuals to perform magic and see how they do it over night, which is not possible in democratic practice. Gradually, with patience, I assure Nigerians we will get there.

What do you think can be done to strengthen democratic rule in Nigeria?

I will advise those who go to Channel TV, AIT and other news media to criticize government’s performance negatively, to stop such negative criticism, criticism is good if they are not political but positive. And if they must do, they should do it with high level of moderation and maturity. In fact, make some of those who criticise government officials – Ministers, Governor or President negatively, you will be marveled at their performance if given a chance to serve the nation, so, those who have personal interest or ambition should give peace a chance to allow the government of the day to succeed if democracy must be strengthened. Everybody can’t be President, Governor or Local Government chairman at the same time, because some of the critics sound like paid agents.

   To strengthen the Nigerian democracy, there should be only one law making body. Our democratic structure should not be so large because of economic reasons and should be structured to suit our peculiar purpose. Our armed forces and police should be expanded to absorb our teeming jobless graduates into it, there should be agricultural divisions to massively produce food enough for the country’s consumption and for export; there should also be division responsible for pharmaceuticals, arms and ammunition, etc.

Sir, how will you assess President Goodluck Jonathan’s administration, economically, socially, politically and otherwise, as he has just a year to go?

Excellent, very very well, in fact, I will score him 85% in performance. You know it is not easy to pilot the affairs of a big and complex country like Nigeria because Nigeria, being a terribly corrupt country, Jonathan came and won election to rule wolfs, Tigers, Lions and even Cobras that are difficult to lead or governed. He is trying; in the past, NEPA has been in existence for decades and they have not done well as there is nothing to reckon with as regards electricity for over 50 years. The man, Jonathan Goodluck came in yesterday as president of this country and has privatized the power sector. This is a major achievement and it’s highly commendable; it’s a bold and positive step, and God will bless him for that. He should do more to privatize refineries and some Federal highways and others to improve the standard of living in Nigeria.

   You see, some people think that, those who bought over and now manage the power sector can bring electricity to every one over night which is not possible; it’s a total madness of their thinking.

   The stability of the power sector will take place gradually now that it has been taken over by private firms and it will take some time for them to put things in order. Maybe, five to 10 years.

   Economically, he has done very well. Nigerians always talk of corruption in Government which has eaten deep into the fabric of this nation. It’s now, a common knowledge that, the quickest way to make big wealth is government. Nigeria is one of the few countries where a pauper can catapult himself to government either by crook or hook and by shedding people’s blood; after winning elections, he goes to the church to read sermon and do thanksgiving. Sooner or later he becomes a multi-billionaire to the public glare and with impunity. Where are we going to start from in this country? The young man, Goodluck Jonathan is trying his best to fight corruption for the betterment of the Nigerian society; besides, he is not the one who introduced corruption in governance. He needs to be applauded and encouraged in fighting corruption.

   Jonathan has in his economic team, a renowned financial expert in person of Dr. (Mrs.) Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala who rose to the pinnacle of her career in the World Bank and now, she is trying her best to improve on the economic standard of the nation. But, as I talk to you now, people do not want her to succeed as a result of bad eggs in the system.

   During the days of military dictatorship, not that they were not corrupt, they were corrupt; but, their official cars and quarters were not as expensive as they are today. Something should be done here to save money for the development of our country only the President, Senate President, Governors and elected leaders of Houses of Assemblies should move in bullet proof expensive cars.

Critics say the present Nigerian governance system is too expensive. Do you share this view?

I laugh, because, we have no reason copying the American style of governance which is quite expensive especially as Nigeria is a developing country. As a matter of fact, I will suggest that, there should be only one National Assembly; all should be on part-time basis, the offices of the Ministers of State should be scrapped to save money.

  Looking at the huge amount of allowances given to Legislature for constituency projects and payment of their too many aides, it means a waste of public funds and it is not going well with the Nigerian economy. Come to think of it, in some cases, there is duplicity of government projects; wherein the same project that has been sponsored by the Federal Government, will still be sponsored by the state and other government intervention agencies like NDDC and others.

    Goodluck Jonathan cannot kill corruption overnight and I believe he is tackling it. When he comes on board in his second term, he will do better, mind you, he is only three years in office.

Do you think Jonathan deserves another tenure considering the current state of insecurity in the nation, especially the Boko Haram and cattle-rearers menace?

Boko Haram or no Boko Haram, Jonathan’s second term is non-negotiable; he has been elected once as President and the constitution says, two terms of four years each. Jonathan’s children are not the one involved in Boko Haram activities; nor his people from Bayelsa State or South-South people. He has since ordered military action against Boko Haram and serious effort is being made to bring back our girls. I sympathise with the young man, people are trying to make Nigeria ungovernable for him, but that cannot stop his second term. I am calling on President Goodluck Jonathan to declare his intention for a second term bid without further delay. The South-South people and other sister geo-political zone will vote for him en-mass, even our northern brother; because this is the first time a Southern minority is given the chance to rule this country through an act of God, we all know that we produce the oil that feeds the nation for over 50 years and we have never been given a fair share of it. I strongly believe that Jonathan will win convincingly. People should allow God to finish His work through Jonathan.

Whether he talks slowly or like an American what matters is result.

 On the Chibok Girls, what is your view on the assistance of foreign nations towards their release?

The state of emergency in some parts of the North is what I don’t understand. Talking about the Chibok girls, if I may ask, were these girls numbering over 200 taken away through a secrete tunnel in Borno State? Were they conjured away from Borno State by magic means? Were they transported by road? And if so, in how many buses or trailers? Was everybody in that Local Government unconscious or given sleeping pills? How is it that nobody took notice of these mass evacuations of these girls? And we have the state government functionaries scattered all over this state, the police and other security operatives and the general public within Borno State. So, why are we crying to Aso Rock in Abuja? Jonathan is just one man, and he cannot be everywhere physically at the same time. How are we sure that, the girls are not within Borno State? I am sure the Government of Borno State must be working hard with the Federal authorities to bring back our girls and permanent peace to that state or else my candid suggestion will be that, the democratic structures in Borno State be set aside temporarily and allow a military administrator to run the affairs of the state until peace returns.

  Though the assistance of foreign nations on the Chibok girls is a welcome development, the Federal Government should give room for dialogue to chat the way forward between the government and Boko Haram with their sponsors to pave way for lasting peace in the country.

Looking at the National Conference, do you think it’s going to be a fruitful exercise that Nigerians can rely on following the extension of another four weeks?

I hope so, it will be a success. Our representatives at the National Conference should do something about the issue of immunity clause. They should recommend the removal of immunity clause and it should be made clear that, the law is not a respecter of any man irrespective of the position he or she occupies in government. There should be a stiff penalty on any public official who enriches himself at the expense of the governed. If the president, governor and even the local government chairman knows that he can be arrested while on seat if he is involved in any fraudulent act, they will then sit tight to avoid embarrassment and serve the people better.

   If this war against indiscipline at all levels in the country is introduced and approved, it will go down to the private sector, because, private investors are suffering in the hands of workers who will not value their job if there are no loop holes for them to steal. And as a result, make life unbearable for investors and this in turn discourages foreign investors as they cannot trust Nigerians to be in control of their finances.

   Anyway, I trust the calibre of men and women in the conference. I believe they will come out with good recommendations.

Chief, back home in Delta your own state, Governor Emmanuel Uduaghan’s administration slogan in recent time is “Finishing Strong.” Do you see any sign of government determination to finish strong?

Well, I am not in a position to judge the Delta State Government slogan of finishing strong. But before any State Government can say that he has achieved anything, one must look at the total amount of money collected from the Federation Account by that state, total money collected as revenue from such state, all the money borrowed on behalf of that state, be it foreign or internal loan  and other sources of income in that state. Then add these to total amount of money such government met in the state treasury. Then we have to talk of loans obtained by previous governments and how much he has paid out of such loans, how many contractors were owed by past administrations and how much have been paid, and how many uncompleted projects inherited by such government and how many of them have been fully completed and paid for; and, finally, the value of all new projects initiated and completed by any outgoing administration of any state – before one can determine whether the government of that state has finished strong or not.

  As in the case of Delta State, I leave that for you who are journalists to judge and score him, putting into consideration infrastructural development in major cities of the state like Warri, Asaba, Sapele, Agbor and others because, I remember when I called for the release of former governor of Delta State, Chief James Ibori, sometime ago, people said a lot of things against me contrary to what I meant. So, I don’t want to say anything on Governor Uduaghan’s performance for now, I don’t know what people will say if I commend or criticize him this time around.

Are you comfortable with the recent release of LGA election time table scheduled to hold on October 25 in Delta State?

Of course, yes, I do. But I want to say here also that, the National Conference should not be silent over the issue of local government funding. The local government should collect their allocation directly from the Federation Account not via the state because most of the local government areas have nothing to write home about. The local governments are finding it difficult to pay their workers’ salaries and this is not helping matters at the grassroots level.

Sir, what is your advice to Nigerians in general and Deltans in particular as regards the 2015 general election?

  My advice to Nigerians towards the 2015 elections is for them to vote en mass for Goodluck Jonathan in order for him to complete his transformational agenda. Nigerians should see themselves as one entity and to be their brothers’ keeper. There should be politics void of bitterness.

   Opposition parties should have the spirit of sportsmanship to plan with the ruling party so as to achieve a common goal for the betterment of all.

  I am also advising the past heads of state and former presidents of Nigeria to always offer to any incumbent president useful advice. They should use their elderly wisdom with their wealth of experience to join hands with whoever becomes president to move the country forward.

On the other hand, I appeal to Governor Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State, one of the governors I admire, to go and reconcile with his boss (Goodluck Jonathan), to retrace his steps. He should not be the one to fight his own brother no matter what. Remember, blood is thicker than water! I love Governor Amaechi so much.

  And to the good people of Delta State, I call on them to work for the re-election of President Goodluck Jonathan and to also vote for a credible candidate come 2015 for the governor of Delta State.

Restore Fiscal Federalism Now, Darah Urges Govt

Prof. Godini G. Darah is a delegate from Delta State to the National Conference. He is former Chief of Staff, Delta State Government and Director-General of the PDP Campaign Organisation in the state (2010-2011). Darah was Editorial Board Chairman of Daily Times and The Guardian newspapers. A radical scholar of folklore science and literature, he is a leading authority on Urhobo culture and artistic civilisation. He is a former member of UNESCO Committee on Oral and Intangible Cultural Heritage. He spoke with CHIDO OKAFOR on several issues bordering on the national conference.

WHAT is the position of the Urhobo people on the National Conference?
   The Urhobo people welcome the National Conference, but they are disappointed that they are allotted only a single representative. The Urhobo Progress Union (UPU) has vehemently protested against the injustice and demanded more slots. The Urhobo nation is one of the three most populous ethnic groups in the South-South geo-political zone of the country. On the basis of this alone, the Urhobo are entitled to be represented under the category of socio-cultural organisations, which supplied 15 names. It is a gross and provocative disregard for Urhobo sovereign integrity that none of the 15 persons nominated under this category is Urhobo. Besides, the Urhobo have many eminent statesmen/women, professionals, and technocrats, who have made excellent contribution to nation-building. The neglect of the Urhobo in these categories of nomination is even more notorious because the Urhobo Progress Union founded over 82 years ago (1931) is the oldest surviving ethno-national organisation in Nigeria. It is incomprehensible that the list of socio-cultural groups in the six South-South states excludes the UPU. The Federal Government should rectify the error and appoint more Urhobo persons to the Conference.
   Notwithstanding the disappointment, the Urhobo have a positive attitude to the conference. This was expressed in the memo the UPU presented to the Senator Femi Okurounmu Presidential Advisory Committee at its consultative session in Benin City on October 28, 2013. In that memo, the UPU described the confab as an “opportunity for the diverse peoples and nations of Nigeria to exchange ideas and proposals on how to strengthen the unity and solidarity of the country for a just and equitable system of government”. In that brief memo, the UPU observed that the Urhobo are always cheated in terms of appointments and representation at the Federal and state levels of government in Nigeria. They decried the small number of local councils (eight) for a population of over two million. We are denied the inalienable right of accurate census enumeration and electoral constituencies commensurate with the size of our population. The memo added that although the Urhobo large population and economic resources merit it, the Urhobo has neither state of their own nor a state capital located in their territory.

Critics say the confab is another jamboree, where nothing progressively dramatic will occur 
  Those who think the confab is a jamboree are free to hold their cynical view.  However, the genuine stakeholders and those who are victims of the structural inequities are determined to make the best of the opportunity. The Urhobo will take advantage of the conference to campaign for their sovereign rights to their lands and natural resources, which are currently alienated from them through cruel and obnoxious laws and policies.

Many ethnic groups are not happy with the number of person(s) representing them at the confab, is the Urhobo well represented?
  I have already described the Urhobo feeling of betrayal in this respect. As in everything political, the Urhobo, through the UPU, are engaging the Federal Government for more equitable representation. We expect the government to review the situation in favour of groups that are unjustly marginalised. In Delta State, for example, the Itsekiri ethnic group has been vociferous in its advocacy for a slot. Considering the reasons they have given, the government cannot ignore to rectify the error. Also in Delta State, the Ukwuani and Ika groups are not directly represented either. The situation in multi-ethnic clusters such as Adamawa, Taraba, Bauchi, Kaduna, Plateau, and Cross River and Rivers states may even be more complicated. The government can bring in about 50 more persons to assuage these genuine complaints that may divert attention from the business of the confab.

What are the demands of the Urhobo? Do you think they are marginalised in the present scheme of things in the nation? 
  The core demand of the Urhobo is the restoration of fiscal federalism so that each federating unit shall exercise 100 per cent right of ownership and management of its natural and economic resources. The federating units will subscribe to the payment of an agreed percentage of its wealth to maintain essential national institutions such as the armed forces, foreign affairs and immigration. This was the system Nigeria operated from the 1950s to the time of military rule in 1966. The four regions in the country had enhanced autonomy in economic and political matters. They even had their separate constitutions and foreign missions. This arrangement facilitated healthy competition and rapid socio-economic development in all parts of the country. To dispossess the Niger Delta of its oil wealth, past regimes enacted oppressive laws such as the Petroleum Decree 51 of 1969, which empowered the then Federal military government to take over all revenue from oil and gas. This law of economic apartheid is now entrenched in Section 44(3) of the 1999 Constitution.
  The Urhobo people and their neighbours in the South-South zone are major casualties of this local colonialism. We are determined to end this exploitation, which has gone on for 45 years. At the confab, the Urhobo will seek the alliance of other victim states to achieve this objective. The Urhobo also demand the abrogation of the land Use Act to free this vital resource for development and enhance the authority and relevance of traditional institutions and rulers. The Urhobo are entitled to have their own state; they will demand the review of Section 8 of the Constitution on state creation to remove the condition that the result of a referendum for the purpose must be “approved by a majority of all the States of the Federation”. This impossible condition has to be expunged from the Constitution for the creation of new states and local councils throughout the country.
  Urhobo land hosts enormous oil and natural gas reserves. The purest, premium oil in the world is being produced in the Kokori and Orogun oil fields of Urhobo. About 25 per cent of electricity generated in Nigeria daily is fired by gas from Urhobo. The oil industry has damaged the environment of the Urhobo nation. For instance, the pipeline fire disaster at Idjerhe (Jesse) in 1998 killed over 1000 people; the health hazards are still present. The Urhobo will use the platform of the confab to demand adequate compensation and reparation for the 50 years of oil-induced holocausts. Encouraging precedents have been set in the cases of Ogoni in Rivers State and Odi community in Bayelsa State. We shall seek the assistance of the United Nations to pursue this goal.

 Do you see cracks on the wall that may break Nigeria in 2015?
  The rumour about the break-up of Nigeria in 2015 was attributed to some voodoo prophets of doom from the United States of America. This is a typical prediction of imperialist nations against countries they want to put down. Nigeria has just marked its 100 years of existence. It has bright prospects for survival. The natural resources in Nigeria are more substantial than those found in all the South East Asian countries. With over 160 million people in a tropical, warm climate, Nigeria is destined to be to Africa, what the United States is to the Americas and Western Europe. Some power blocs in the world are uncomfortable with these credentials. There is, therefore, an imperative need to restructure Nigeria in an equitable and democratic manner so that it can fulfil its manifest destiny for its peoples, Africa, and the African in Diaspora.

What do you think are the problems with Nigeria?
   I have indicated the fundamental ones in the answer to question four. The primary ones concern the unworkable unitary system of government that strangulates development initiatives of the federating units and entrepreneurs. For the multiple ethnic and socio-cultural composition of the country, our nationalists opted for a federal system at independence in 1960. The liquidation of that arrangement is the prime cause of the instability and economic underdevelopment facing the country. We must return to that federal system to enable us harness all the potentials for growth and development.
   The large number of ethnic groups and languages is not the real problem. There are 311 languages spoken in the United States of America but the equitable federal arrangement there allows both majority and minority groups to flourish at their own pace. In the United States, Canada, India, and Australia, the central government does not corner the bulk of the resources of the states or counties to “dish out” periodically, even to those sections that make no contribution to the national treasury. Even if Nigeria had only a single language, there can still be crisis as in Somalia. The first task, therefore, is to free the constituent units of administration from the yoke of the omnipotent central government at Abuja through the practice of fiscal federalism. This will unleash the vast potentials of the country for socio-economic transformation as has happened in countries like India, Indonesia and the United States.
   For instance, the 21 solid minerals in Nasarawa State alone are more than the endowments of China in this respect. We have to develop technical capacity to explore and process these mineral resources to support industrialisation and agri-business. Currently, Nigeria depends on revenue from the export of unprocessed crude oil and natural gas. This is what has retarded the economic growth of the country. As in Venezuela and the Houston area of Texas State in the United States, Nigeria should have hundreds of mini refineries and petrochemical plants. These industries will generate wealth and employment in the form of processing, packaging, and exporting of finished goods. With prosperity and mass employment, the problems of poverty, idleness, and violent crimes can be curtailed. The revolutionary transformation of Nigeria’s economy and society cannot happen unless and until we achieve 100 per cent literacy rate in all parts of the country. Nigeria’s Vision 20-2020 will remain a pipe dream until we attain this level of human capital development.
  Let me add that all nations that depend on export of crude natural resources are prone to crisis and political instability, as proven by the experience of the Congo Democratic Republic. In such economies, powerful foreign interests invest in causing local crisis, civil wars, and doomsday predictions of break-up. Furthermore, the disease of corruption that is touted as the foremost problem in Nigeria is a logical concomitant of the extractive nature of the economy. Without economic diversification and industrialisation, those who entrench themselves in positions of power will always subvert the system to promote selfish, primitive accumulation of wealth and property. Moral and ethical hygiene develops only with the discipline of industrial production supported by accountable and open transaction of public and private affairs. The National Conference will end in fiasco if it does not make provisions for the restoration of fiscal federalism, enhanced local autonomy, and equitable, democratic institutions of governance.

What can be done to dramatically address the insecurity nightmare in the nation today?
   The radical political and economic reforms outlined in the foregoing sections will enhance the country’s capacity to deal with instability and widespread violence. It is expected that the Conference will endorse the principle of state and local policing systems such that each federating unit will be in charge of its security. This was the practice during British colonial rule and the First Republic (1960-1966). Private corporate bodies such as the United African Company (UAC) and Shell Petroleum Development Company maintained their own police formations. They all worked in harmony with government police forces to keep peace, law and order. With return of policing responsibilities to states, councils, and municipalities, the armed forces and security agencies of the central government will be devoted to maintaining the territorial integrity of the country and lending assistance to the states and local councils in cases of emergencies.
   The federal security outfits will also engage in peace-keeping operations abroad. The decentralisation of policing matters will promote more security and orderly conduct because the recruitment of officers and other ranks shall be reserved for indigenes and residents of the states and local councils. Their identities and loyalty can be better monitored for efficiency.

GBAGI: Nigerian State Requires Total Overhauling

Chief Kenneth Gbagi is a frontline politician, criminologist, lawyer and one of Delta’s resourceful investors. In this interview with CHIDO OKAFOR, he spoke about the just concluded  Delta Central senatorial election and also analysed the security situation in the country, among sundry issues.  

Despite being majority ethnic group, the Urhobos complain of being politically marginalised. Is it that they are not united or organised?
THE outcome of the Delta central senatorial election won by Aguariavwodo contradicts your comment that the Urhobos are not organised or united because when they need to organise they know what to do. This state belongs to us and at the appropriate time, we’ll do the needful to ensure that an Urhobo emerges Governor. We’ll not fall for deceit or tricks. And if they want to show they can do it without us through any game or extra electioneering arrangement, we are ready. We’ll prove that we’re Urhobo.

Why your strong  belief that the Urhobo is ready?
  The Aguariavwodo election provides an answer to that. Just as our slogan indicates, Urhobo is one entity to the detriment of any other person. We’ll never agree. Go and mark it.
What is your assessment of the recent Delta Central senatorial election won by PDP?
  What the Urhobos did in that particular election is to tell anyone interested that the Urhobos have gone far in politics and we’ll take our rightful place at the right time. Emmanuel Aguariavwodo is a consensus candidate and an Urhobo man. If he were to be another tribe, we would have been singing another tune. Let nobody make the mistake that the Urhobo man eyes are closed or that we have become politically submissive vis a vis the PDP thing, to the detriment and undermining the interest of the Urhobo man.
  We decided as Urhobos that this is one of ours and that the Delta Central senatorial seat was taken from us wrongly. We decided as Urhobos that my younger brother from the same senatorial area as the late Ewherido, from Olomu and in the same party should contest. It was only equitable that we returned power to that same locality and that is what the Urhobos did en masse.
  With this, we are saying that Delta State also belongs to us though some think the Urhobos are divided. And we’ll work with our brothers and sisters across the state because one man cannot do it alone; it is a collective effort. PDP is our party and we cannot toy with that, but for goodness sake, the candidate should be accepted by all.

Why did PDP Settle for Aguariavwodo? 
  If you have 10 children desiring to go to school and you, the father doesn’t have enough money to send them all at the same time, you must take a decision. It was our decision as leaders and founders of the party to pick him. For instance, I contested the Governorship election in 1999 and by virtue of the fact that I’m one of the founding fathers, I’m signatory to the charter of the party. So, we took a decision that Aguariavwodo should go and that accounts for my being in the forefront of the campaign council and going everywhere to meet with important people.
  Most importantly, however, credit must be given to Emmanuel Uduaghan because I believe he meant well and spoke the truth. He went all out as Governor of the state to unite the Urhobos and the entire state, ensuring that we do not in any way have shortfalls. He should be congratulated and praised for his efforts. Credit should also go to the election council for going to every nook and cranny of Delta central to campaign. Also to be commended are my brothers, the Urhobos, for understanding and accepting our pleas that it should be PDP this time. We were courageous and we did it.

The APC and DPP say the election was rigged and are calling for a re-run
  Most of the contestants in the other parties are like younger brothers. The APC and DPP candidates are close to me. Let’s take the issue of APC for instance. It is a newly registered party that is not on ground. They don’t have party offices or anybody. How can you expect to win an election when you don’t have people, you are not known and the party is just registered? We have passed the time when people just come to deceive us. I’m one of the founders of PDP and I’m not going to leave it for any other. Ask the APC and DPP candidates to be fair— what groundwork did they do?       
  On the day the APC candidate came to Warri to campaign, there was not a single Urhobo man of substance with him. Is it Oshiomole that will vote for him in Delta? Was it the rented crowd he bought from Edo State that would vote for him? This is not Edo politics; the election was for Delta Central. During our campaign, you saw Omo-Agege, Tom Amioku, Amori, Majemite and many others. Name one Urhobo person of substance that was at the APC rally other than taxi drivers and touts. He rented them and really, they complained he didn’t pay the money they agreed on. 
  The Urhobos have come a long way politically and won’t be hoodwinked by anyone. What is his pedigree? What has he got to offer? Of course, a shameless leader will always make comments. This particular election in which I fully participated with my body and soul was free and fair.
What is the big picture for Urhobo in 2015?
  The issue of the Urhobos producing the Governor in 2015 is not negotiable.

What about the talk of power shifting to Delta North? 
There is no such thing. The state capital cannot be moved back.
The Governor recently praised you as one of the reputable private investors in the state. What drives your investment?
  It is only a foolish man that won’t acknowledge the inevitability of death. I own the second tallest building in Yaba, Lagos. I also own hotels and estates with streets named after me there. Equally, my businesses in Abuja are thriving. But charity, they say, begins at home. I have a good reason for moving a substantial part of my investment to Delta State though comparatively the returns on investment here (Delta) are somewhat lower but I believe that Delta will soon regain its past glory; it is only a matter of time.
  I genuinely believe the government will tackle the problems as they rear their ugly head because the Governor is a stakeholder like me and this is why I advocate that people without any stake should not be allowed close to public office. I believe Uduaghan is pursuing the objectives rightly and it is only a matter of time before Delta State takes its pride of place.
How successful are you as a businessman?
  Success belongs to the Lord alone. I believe I’m successful, but let others decide whether or not my modest contribution has touched their lives. As an entrepreneur, who believes that we must develop this area, I will continue to do my very best to contribute my quota to unemployment and security problems in the state.

Your critics say you are not a businessman per se as you keep jumping from one business to another. For instance, they say you started with security firms, which folded up shortly after and you left it for other businesses. 
  Life is all about change. Anyone that does not recognise change has a problem. I cannot change the fact that I’m a criminologist or that was my professional calling. Today, I’m a lawyer but I still do my security consultation in Africa, Europe and America. I have transcended from providing guard services to more sophisticated security services across the globe. My consultation here, in the UN, the EU and everywhere else in the world is of great importance. What happened is that in have established more businesses and not that I have jettisoned printing for construction or other businesses; rather, the thing has expanded.
 I started life very early. My security company is still alive and doing very well just like my other companies. But I cannot be CEO to all the businesses anymore. So now, I’m the Group chairman as it were. I have to allow all the other businesses run anyway they are able to. It is not that anything has changed; it is just that the dynamics and sophistication of the media world have changed and we have gone to different levels.

Do you have challenges as an investor in Delta state?
  There are enormous challenges, but because of our determination as a people, we have decided that we must overcome these challenges and succeed irrespective of what people say. Are those crying for employment ready for the required sacrifice? For instance, I have just completed the first digital cinema in Africa despite all the challenges and right now, the cinema is test running. The joy I derive is that I have brought the first digital cinema home in Warri, and should I die today I have achieved my heart desire. I brought Robson Plaza, the biggest shopping plaza to Warri. The plaza has been copied in different ways– that is development. Hotel business wasn’t a fad when I went into it but today everybody wants to own a hotel. It’s like whatever Gbagi does or puts his hand in is right and as a result, everybody wants to follow suit. 
  When I met the Governor not long ago, he said if more people do what Gbagi has done, the state would have been a better place for it. But if you leave your home, the only one you have, who will develop it for you? For how long will you be inviting people from America, London, Germany or Chile? Some of them were my classmates when I was abroad. They will tell you ‘we know Gbagi can do this, why not go and meet him?
  Nigeria is the only place where if you want to build an industry you have to put transformers in place. I have about six 1MVA transformers in Delta state alone. I bought and installed them and even pay tax to PHCN. The money I used to buy the transformers would have given me two or three machines for instance. You also have to provide roads. The road to my house now is bad. Twelve years ago I tarred it all the way. So, the challenges are numerous. But the issue is that the Lord is not stupid when he made us Urhobos, and gave us this land. So, we’ll do everything as stakeholders to make progress because success story is what we want to hear.

As a criminologist, how would you analyse the Nigerian security challenges?
  In the past people and government look for persons, who understood what they were doing. As a criminologist, I will tell you that the security situation is terrible nationwide. It has become bread and butter. Everybody is carting money away to their various local governments and localities and this is taxpayers’ funds. Those charged with the responsibility of securing Nigeria have failed the nation and that is why we are having such things as Boko Haram in the country. Nobody is being held responsible for the failure. Rather, they are developing their various areas, building estates, hotels etc. because the country does not have a self-accounting system to get them to account for their responsibilities.
  The Nigerian state requires total overhauling. Again, we must go back to the experts and put them in the background to teach security institutions what to do or take control of the leadership and turn it around or calamity is inevitable.

Who are the experts you talked about?
 Those are the people who understand what security means. They should be made to handle the situation and control things from behind the scene. The people managing our security right now don’t know anything, but they pretend to know. It’s not just coincidental that we have continuous failures.
Are saying that perhaps the measures put in place to tackle Boko Haram, for instance, is inadequate?
  It won’t work yesterday, today and tomorrow.
As a former Minister of state for Education, what can you attribute the perceived rot in the sector and the unending ASUU strike to?
  When I was in the council, I navigated through the system on my own and created the 12 universities. No Without anyone’s acknowledgement or encouragement, I used my resources and took a memo to the federal executive council and created those universities. Not just that, 14 polytechnics and 16 Colleges of education were also created and thankfully, all the 12 universities are still in existence. I pride myself in that nobody had thought of it before then. I also gave life to the Petroleum University in Effurun. What former President Obasanjo did was to give funds to build a university but there was no legal instrument for creating the university. But in my capacity as a Minister, I got that university established.
  Concerning the perceived rot in the education sector, I think a lot needs to be done. Nigerians need to sit down and decide the way forward. Just as I set up the perimeters for the education sector to thrive, the prerogative to make ministers is that of the President’s. We need to do a total surgery in that sector because what is happening there is unfortunate. I have prepared a catalogue for the way forward having worked there as a minister.

ASUU says federal government does not respect agreements and memorandum of understandings. Do you agree?
  The problem is not that of Jonathan but with those saddled with the responsibility and not doing the required thing in spite of being paid with taxpayers’ money. There is a lot of rot in the education sector and because our children are involved we don’t have to keep pretending. We need to change the situation on ground.

ASUU also says part of the problem is that the country’s leaders don’t appreciate the problem in the education sector because their children are schooling abroad.
  When I was Minister of state for education, I had a very difficult situation in my hand. I told my children abroad that they must return to Nigeria to school.
Really?
  Yes. The President has a duty. There can be a Minister of education whose children and relatives are schooling abroad. It means that minister doesn’t believe in the system. It’s just like the Minister of health going for medical treatment abroad.
  There is something the President can do to show due diligence. He can pass an instruction to the effect that all cabinet ministers must put their children in public schools. That does not need any legislation. Such will go a long way for people to think right because most of the demands being made by ASUU are obviously illegitimate.